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Episode 11 of the Art of Composing Podcast. We interview Robert Gjerdingen, author of the book “Music in the Galant Style”. We talk about Partimenti, the tool used to train the greatest composers from Mozart to Debussy and Stravinsky, as well as his new research into how music fits really well into constructionist linguistic theory.
What is in this episode:
- What Partimenti are and why you should care.
- How composers like Mozart would have actually learned to composed.
- How composition is very similar to speaking a language.
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Resources and Links Mentioned in this Episode:
Joint Improvisation by Alma Deutscher and Tobias Cramm
Four Improvisations for Piano by Arensky, Rachmaninov, Glazunov & Taneyev
Robert Gjerdingen’s Book
Music in the Galant Style
*This is an affiliate link to amazon
Schema Theory as a Construction Grammar
http://www.mtosmt.org/issues/mto.15.21.2/mto.15.21.2.gjerdingen_bourne.html
Robert Gjerdingen’s Website
http://faculty-web.at.northwestern.edu/music/gjerdingen/index.htm
Monuments of Partimenti
http://faculty-web.at.northwestern.edu/music/gjerdingen/partimenti/index.htm
Incredible – what a podcast! Thank you, Jon, and congratulations on making your site a success. I’ve been infrequently visiting you for four or five years now – keep it up!
Thanks Rory.
Hi Jon
Are there any books that teach partimento from a beginner level to advanced.
Regards
Aditya
I would start with the Gjerdingen Book. https://www.amazon.com/Music-Galant-Style-Robert-Gjerdingen/dp/0195313712
Thanks Jon. Does the book provide step by step process on how to learn? I went through the table of contents on google books but couldn’t find any details on that.
It doesn’t really have step by step exercises, but the concepts he explains are very clear and easy to put into practice. In connection with the book, he has the monuments of partimenti website and a small website with some exercises here https://sites.google.com/site/partimenti/resources/mon_of_partimenti.
thanks for the information. I will go through these websites.
There isn’t any book as of now but start studying from Robert Gjerdigen’s website.
It’s quite easy tk folloe.
Learn rule of the octaves and Cadences. Then start with Furno book on his site.
And have a copy of the art of partimento and music in the galant style. Study them parallely.
Good site.
Great podcast. Very interesting.
Is it just me or is little Alma Deutscher extremely talented? Who knows what she will bring to the table in the future, but I can’t think of ever having seen such raw talent before. It’s quite fun to watch her videos all the way from 4 years old till today.
She is very talented, but she has also had great instruction to nurture that talent. It will be interesting to see what she composes as she gets older.
Thank´s a lot for this very interesting podcast.
A BBC Documentation about Vivaldi and his relationship to the orphans of the Ospeldale della Pietá of Venice narrates the same story of giving orphans a music education for a living. You will find the documentation here: https://youtu.be/SreE6NbtYUc
There is a software program called Tonica Fugata available that creates Fugatas automatic in different styles based on a two bar phrase you type in it . This program is bases on Neuronal Networks but now with the information from Robert Gjerdingen about Partimenti it is much more understandable.
The documentary sounds interesting, I’ll definitely watch it when I get the chance.
Hi Jon, this was mindblowingly informative, great work.
Thank you.
Fantastic interview, Jon. Thanks.
The partimento/schema tradition is such a wonderful method for composers.
I sure hope you manage to lure Gjerdingen out to California. It would be such a privilege to sit in on a lecture!
Someday…
Jon,
This was a fantastic episode and a great interview. I learned much. Well done! Thank you for it.
Thanks.
Looks like the USA beat the Russians in the Cold War but remains two centuries behind in formal conservatory training–which helps to explain the capitalist vacuum of an American Stravinsky. The precocious Alma probably comes from money which gives her the advantage of time and access to materials, but it makes me wonder what could be done if music was put in the hands of the dispossessed again(like the orphans of Naples).
I think Alma proves the point that this style of teaching composition works well. Now it is up to us to create new and interesting partimenti for the 21st century, but the Russian tradition seems to be a great place to start.
The precocious Alma probably comes from money which gives her the advantage of time and access to materials, but it makes me wonder what could be done if music was put in the hands of the dispossessed again(like the orphans of Naples).
I sense this is the hope and what many scholars are now working towards… that music at home being taught by parents
Thank you for this podcast.. My thoughts are
with these tools plus good natured teachers and the WILL to want to enjoy playing all adds up to what appears to be prodigy status..however it looks more like this is simply due to the fact that this has all been buried for so long — not many are aware of the ideas yet and it seems miraculous. There could NOT have been 10,000 street urchin prodigies at the same time in Naples…and RG states they could rival any musician. It can be taught likely as you suggest with time money friends and tools..however what a struggle to convince local teachers there is any value in augmenting a lesson..the real hope for music is that this reaches the masses..the schools..the kindergartens..other wise music is over for most as they rush to small muscle Olympic nirvana.
mr glenn gould talks about this more than I can..
https://youtu.be/Pkc8LjmKKMw?t=85
I hope it does catch on. I think it will take some very simple pedagogical material (workbooks, courses, etc) and then teachers will adopt it.
Thanks a lot Jon for this very interesting podcast, it defensively opened up a new prospective for me in my composition and musicianship training.
Best Regards,
Max
It was a good one for sure.
Thank you very much for the link Jon. As I read more about the influence Arensky had on Rachmaninoff and Scriabin, it’s a shame that what little information we have is quite hard to find. I also found it interesting to read Rachmaninoff’s ancedotes about his early studies with Sverev and Arensky.
https://books.google.com/books?id=pig-CgAAQBAJ&pg=PA40&lpg=PA40#v=onepage&q&f=false
I started taking a look at Arensky’s work and ran across his Arabesque in which you can hear the influence he had on Rachmaninoff.
http://imslp.org/wiki/Special:ImagefromIndex/06470
Very cool.
Extremely interesting podcast. Robert mentions Arenzky’s Harmony as does Rachmaninoff, Scriabin and Tchaikovsky in memoirs.
Any idea where these Arensky Harmony exercises or books can be found?
https://www.scribd.com/doc/305313092/1000-Problems-for-the-Practical-Study-of-Harmony-by-Anton-Arensky